An Open Letter to Hon Carmel Sepuloni

Dear Hon Sepuloni

I am writing to express concern about some comments you made on The Nation TV3 Saturday 26/08/2023 regarding Gloriavale.

I run the Gloriavale Leavers’ Support Trust and am involved with many of the leavers, assisting them in resettling, and being on the receiving end of what must have been tens of thousands of hours listening to their stories over the past ten years. Only a snippet of what there is to know has come out in public or in court cases.

In your role as Deputy Prime Minister and Chair of the Social and Wellbeing Committee (which is in charge of the Gloriavale Multi-Agency response), Rebecca Wright asked you questions about Gloriavale and the safety of children. I fully accept it appears you were not aware there were questions coming to you and that’s it’s important to have up-to-date information before speaking publicly.

However there were two small comments you made that were concerning, to say the least.

One was that the Government has “eyes on Gloriavale” and the other was “I haven’t had any suggestions they (the children) are unsafe.”

Given Gloriavale are under an “active” Police investigation for Slavery, Servitude and Forced Labour, and both the Courage and Pilgrim Employment Court cases identified these issues, it strikes me as incredible that you could make the comment you don’t think the children are unsafe.

The Government has “Eyes” on Gloriavale.

This sounds like a reassuring comment, however, with groups like Gloriavale our eyes can often have difficulty seeing through the mirror and often what we see reflected back is simply what the community wants you to see, and what the person looking wants to believe. How else does that explain 50 years of hideous offending and cover-ups? Groups like Gloriavale are excellent at impression management, and sadly, it’s not as easy to spot as you think it is.

I want to acknowledge there has been an increased lot of eyes on Gloriavale in recent months, and I am not wanting to be harshly critical of the attempts by Government agencies to finally ensure Gloriavale is complying with the law (although I will never forget the fight it has been, and remains to be, to advocate in this space). The past one to two years has been validating for us, and we are encouraged by the increased interest, assisted by litigation no doubt.

However, you need to know that you have “eyes” on Gloriavale, but leavers have “ears” inside Gloriavale – and the two are entirely different. You also have very select eyes on Gloriavale, and they know you are watching.

We hear from people inside Gloriavale who want change and who are unhappy with life in there. These people are often not brave enough to interface with some of the Government agencies involved. Some might be, but they will be careful in what they share and with whom.

For example, while I was writing this letter, someone from Gloriavale messaged me after reading Winston Peters call for a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the failures of Government relating to Gloriavale. This lady wrote, “Wow. Just read Winston Peter’s remarks on Gloriavale. How much power does he have? Just wondering if something drastic might finally happen.” I wrote back, “Would you like something drastic to happen?” The response was, “Yeah, who doesn’t. The girls’ lives are only getting harder for now. Would be great if they just started giving families their own homes and letting them make their own decisions. One day.” (28 August 2023)

I don’t imagine you hear from the desperate people living in this controlling community? But we do. Mothers, fathers, young people. We hear their pleas. Many people want help. And they need it from outsiders. And they’re tired of the leaders fooling agencies with their promises of change.

We hear what is being preached at the breakfast table, and at the Sunday sermons. We hear about the parents’ meetings and the school meetings. We hear about what’s being spoken about in the hallways and corridors. Current members of Gloriavale pass information back out to their families who have left and our network. (Leavers’ efforts to reconnect with families via electronic means are paying off).

You can have eyes on Gloriavale, and yet still miss entire swathes of what is occurring in there.

If you turned up to attend those meetings, they would simply adjust what they speak about. Did you know that Hopeful Christian used to have a red flag that was raised when visitors were sitting in at the meal tables or church meetings? He adjusted the way he spoke to the people and what he spoke about if there were visitors there. Gloriavale has been run on deeply deceptive and manipulative techniques for decades. What makes you confident that’s not occurring now?

Do you really think they can change their ways because the Government has eyes on them? They may make some promising changes for a short period of time, just to get you off their backs. But here is a summary of what Stephen Standfast (next in line for the Overseeing Shepherd role) said on the 24^th of June 2023 in the church meeting. He said, “I’ve been accused of not changing or being willing to learn. But it’s not because I’m not willing to change. I’m concerned about the truth we have received from our prophets and that we don’t want to lose that truth along with the gathering up of other truth. Have we been listening to the prophets that God has sent us?” (Please note this is not a direct quote, but a summary of a larger speech).

The most important thing to Gloriavale is not what the Government says. It’s what they believe God says – as written down in What We Believe.

Doctor Norris (Forensic Psychiatrist) shone a helpful light on these kinds of groups in the Pilgrim Girls’ Employment Hearing. Here are the notes I took during the hearing on the sea change concept:

”Engagement with Government Agencies

Ms Catran (Government lawyer) said I want to deal briefly with the issue of engagement with Government agencies and reporting wrongdoing.  You’ve talked about other research you’ve come across and the way therapists need to engage quite carefully with people who’ve left the community. We’ve had evidence of a previous culture or policy of dealing with all problems that arise within the confines of the community – bringing them to the leaders, or dealing with them individually, not taking them outside and that includes not complaining to the police or other government agencies about wrongdoing. We’ve heard also that this policy has been changing over the last several years (the length of time we’re not quite sure), but it’s agreed that this change in culture takes some time and that during that transition period some individuals will embrace the change in culture and some will have difficulty with it. At paragraph 134 you talk about the prospect of a change in community values. You’re talking about the range of options available to women. You’re not talking about engagement with government agencies but I wonder if the same principle might apply. You say, “A wider range of choices could only be considered available to community members if there was a change in the community values that was communicated by the leaders and widely accepted by the group.” Are those the things that you think are necessary for culture change to be achieved? Communication by the leaders and acceptance by the group?

Dr Norris said I’m more referring to a sea change rather than something quite that narrow. The characteristics I was given involved a male-dominated hierarchy structure. I can’t comment on changes that have happened over time. I don’t have anything more specific than that but the sea change I’m talking about would be a change in roles available, a widening of experiences so people could make different choices, make them safely, freely without fear of issue or ostracism, those aspects that could potentially cause that influence, an opening of that environment. That’s more what I’m referring to there. So it is also true that culture change takes time, but I’m referring to more significant changes than just involvement through an external agency.

Ms Catran said by sea change you mean a really fundamental change to the way the community works? Dr Norris said significant changes or options being available and there is no concern around the perception that that choice was not available.”

In my opinion it’s really important that the Government balances their “eyes” on Gloriavale, with input from those who have “ears” in Gloriavale. Most groups like Gloriavale, when under pressure, will make some adjustments and periodic accommodations, but these are not to be confused with a real cultural change, where the values are widely accepted by the group and the leadership.

I feel it’s really important to assist your understanding of how cultic groups work (high demand, high cost, thought-control groups – whatever name you prefer to use to describe these kinds of groups). They require specialist understanding, and unfortunately many people from Government agencies who are engaging within the Gloriavale sphere, still have practically no understanding or experience of these settings.

There is much research and helpful literature overseas to assist. I would like to see a greater understanding among Government agencies about how abusive organisations respond in a crisis. That might assist you to not be sucked in by the promises of systemic change. (Yes there might be some adjustments made, but we’re talking wider than that). We need a sea change at Gloriavale if you want child safety.

“I haven’t heard any suggestion they are unsafe“

This comment was deeply disturbing.

You will most likely be referring to the increased awareness and work done in the sphere of sexual and physical offending in Gloriavale, but safety can’t just be measured in terms of sexual or physical safety. This is something that has frustrated us about Government agencies inside the Gloriavale sphere. Our interest in children needs be more holistic.

Dr Norris spoke in her report for the Employment Court and described the children in Gloriavale as being socially entrapped. That doesn’t sound like a safe place to live.

Howard Temple (Overseeing Shepherd) admitted they choose to isolate the children to keep them in the community. That doesn’t sound safe.

Howard Temple admitted they would do whatever was needed to keep people in the community because he didn’t want them to leave. That doesn’t sound safe.

The Government’s own questioning of the leaders during the court case revealed that there are people inside Gloriavale who have not been happy about policy changes and that “Change takes time”. That doesn’t sound safe.

For anyone to suggest that a place filled with such prolific sexual and physical offending, is now safe because the Government has eyes on them, is failing to recognise the powerful environmental factors at play.

Children in cults are NOT SAFE. NEVER.

They aren’t emotionally safe. This is evidenced by the children coming out of Gloriavale, who need intervention. There is more evidence for this in the recent Ministry of Education report on Gloriavale Leavers. This shows children at Gloriavale haven’t been safe in school or other places. There are still high rates of bedwetting within the community (as given in evidence by Rachel Stedfast in the Royal Commission hearing). This shows heightened anxiety in the community (which has been a problem for decades). This shows children aren’t safe.

They aren’t physically safe. A child’s arm got mangled in the community washing machine not too long ago. Parents are under immense amounts of stress living in a cult, which increases the likelihood of domestic violence, whether inflicted on the children, or wives. (The stress has always been there, but the leaders tried to say during the Employment Court hearing that it was because of increased pressure due to court cases!). The Government hasn’t been able to action a quick solution for a cell tower in the valley and phones to every person over 16. This is extremely unsafe. Most families don’t have the capacity to move with freedom off the site of the Community, because of the lack of vehicle access. This is unsafe. Trips to Christchurch get cancelled and health appointments missed because they “don’t have enough money”. People don’t attend to their health conditions in a timely manner. This shows children aren’t physically safe.

They aren’t psychologically safe. There are some very seriously mentally unwell people at Gloriavale, who are not being given the help they need. This is unsafe. Their family members and children suffer. Gloriavale may have made some nods to sexual and physical safety under pressure, but they continue to deny they psychologically damage people. Their leaders showed a huge lack of insight into this aspect of their community during the Employment Court Hearing. I know people aren’t psychologically safe, or why would they turn to us for support while still living in there? They are risking everything by being involved with us. But we care. And they say Gloriavale doesn’t.

They aren’t sexually safe. Children are still living in tight conditions with brothers and sisters, and also with parents who are sexually active. They also aren’t safe from the unsafe attitudes that remain prevalent in the community. They clearly don’t follow their policies of “believing the victims” or else why did they spend much of their time in the Employment Court hearing trying to minimise the offending? This shows children aren’t safe. How can the children be sexually safe? Removing known sexual offenders who are going through the courts is a very important step in increasing safety, and I want to acknowledge the efforts to do this. Running STOP programmes is also extremely important. Increasing awareness is also vital.  However, when the abuse is systemic and so many young ones were sexualised from a young age, there is no safety for many more years. There are still men and boys in Gloriavale who have not been prosecuted who live at Gloriavale. Not everyone feels safe to go to the Police and tell their stories. It’s lunacy to believe all the offenders have been suitably identified.  

Additionally leaders in Gloriavale still minimise and justify offending and choose not to believe the extent of it. They certainly have limited insight into the impacts of the offending. This is not safe for children.

They aren’t spiritually safe. The members have been told their leaders are like the mouthpieces of God. Below is portion of a 40-minute sermon which was preached Sunday 16 July 2023 (a few days after the Girls’ Employment Court judgment) by Salem Temple (Servant and youth leader):

“Is there anyone here today struggling to find an answer. Anyone here feeling that life is slowly overcoming them? Is anyone feeling they need to love more perfectly, or to be loved more perfectly.

Anyone here feeling fear and unbelief? There is an answer. If you need the spirit of God there is an answer. If you need love there is an answer. If you need faith there is an answer. If you need peace and security, there is an answer. And the answer is a simple four-letter word. Obey.

And you think if you obey, there’s got be more to it than that. And when you say “obey” this world cries bondage, slavery and loss of rights. But I want to encourage you this morning that simple word obey brings power, it brings freedom and it brings answers to everything we face.…

“His obedience will cost you something, it certainly is. Obedience is going to cost you everything. Obedience is the manifestation of self-denial. Jesus called us, if any man come after me let Him deny himself. If we want to check how much we’ve denied self, how obedient are we?”

“So to learn true obedience, there is going to be suffering and we’re going to have to be willing to suffer. To truly obey you have to be willing to suffer. “

This is spiritual abuse in its finest form. And you might think you can’t foray into matters of religion, but look beyond the religious façade and into the intention. This is simple grooming and conditioning tactics at play. He is taking a religious precept, and twisting it into a power and control tactic. He simply wants people to obey the leaders. Do the job you’re told to do. Keep the rules. Don’t buck the system. This is not a spiritually safe place for children.

So if children aren’t emotionally safe, physically safe, psychologically safe, spiritually safe, sexually safe, what grounds do you have to say “you’ve had no indication the children aren’t safe?”

In fact leavers are concerned that the comment you made will be latched onto inside Gloriavale and will possibly find its way into a court case as evidence of your approval of them. This is damaging. Cults rely on knowing there is someone in power that approves of them.

The comment, unfortunately, lacks the fulsome understandings of cults and how they operate. It’s like saying, “I have no indication that children born into active gangs are unsafe.” It really is a very similar parallel.

It’s a concern.

Are children safe in Gloriavale? Of course not!! It’s an oxymoron.

We share the call by Winston Peters for a Royal Commission of Inquiry into Gloriavale including the Government failures.

Kind regards, Liz Gregory

General Manager of Gloriavale Leavers’ Support Trust (On behalf of some Gloriavale Leavers who have expressed concern about your comments. They would appreciate a response please.)